tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3654204667900390232.post3151242073760311587..comments2023-05-25T11:56:49.416-04:00Comments on Running In the Yard: Ebony and IvoryUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3654204667900390232.post-63412443934230990592009-07-15T13:11:13.725-04:002009-07-15T13:11:13.725-04:00Flutter - Yeah, 'awkward and truth-baring'...<b>Flutter</b> - Yeah, 'awkward and truth-baring' is pretty much the uncomfortable fact of the matter. I still cringe thinking about it. . .<br /><br />Our kids' high school really does present a pretty diverse experience. Racial/ethnically, socio-economically, and all sorts of ways (altho the very 'high-end' of the socio-economic scale tend to be either in private schools, or in the suburbs). Like I said, we've been exposed to kids from all sorts of backgrounds that we never would have otherwise. . .Desmond Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07829959101276150279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3654204667900390232.post-58089230005808544662009-07-15T12:49:00.891-04:002009-07-15T12:49:00.891-04:00I really enjoyed this post... your experience with...I really enjoyed this post... your experience with an awkward, truth-baring moment with William echoed one of my own experiences.<br /><br />I'm so glad that your kids that such a diverse experience at their school. That is something that is so hard to come by here in the Canadian Prairies. Our closest experience was when the Kid attended a Montessori preschool, which was all-around a wonderful, amazing experience for him. But, even at that, the classroom wasn't all that diverse as everyone attending was from a similar demographic in society, even though there was a bigger sampling of race.flutterbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17460436620025386593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3654204667900390232.post-18109065475620767472009-07-15T10:57:15.370-04:002009-07-15T10:57:15.370-04:00Aphron - I get what you're saying. And you ar...<b>Aphron</b> - I get what you're saying. And you are certainly correct that racism isn't only a 'white/Caucasian/European' thing.<br /><br />I have a friend who is Brazilian. And in Brazil, you have a whole spectrum of various and sundry 'racial mixtures' (combinations of European, African and Native American), and one's race is just another personal fact, along the lines of hair/eye color. Brazil has a history of enslaving both Africans and Indians, but no war to end it. I don't know what all that means, but it is a tantalizing set of facts that are suggestive of a 'way forward'. . .<br /><br />I'm sure you're also right about 'distrust of the Other'. And American history is rife with examples of prejudice toward various and sundry 'Others'. But Irish, Italians, Poles, etc have long since joined the 'American mainstream', and racially-different Asians are well on their way. And all of those groups are newer to these shores than blacks. But the distrust between those of African ancestry and those of European ancestry has been much more durable, and I'm perplexed as to why that should continue to be the case.<br /><br />At any rate, as has been said above, by others and by me, May it end soon. . .Desmond Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07829959101276150279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3654204667900390232.post-35380070797793023212009-07-15T10:16:53.755-04:002009-07-15T10:16:53.755-04:00We, basically, live in a segregated society. I do...We, basically, live in a segregated society. I don't think it is a racist thing, but a "bird of a feather" thing. Sadly, it does produce prejudice. <br /><br />I'm not sure we have actual racism, in that one ethnic group has overt power over another. I do think we have prejudice. When we hear the term racism (or prejudice), we tend to think of white on black. However, we forget that there are forms of racism that goes in many different directions: black on white, Asian on Hispanic, Hispanic on black, etc.<br /><br />I think it boils down to distrust for those that are different from us. It is rooted in ignorance. While I am a firm believer that forced desegregation causes more problems than it solves, as a people we have a long way to go towards developing that ability to see others for who they are.aphronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02203237871375124185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3654204667900390232.post-12654133039341549792009-07-14T14:26:33.241-04:002009-07-14T14:26:33.241-04:00Xavier - Those 'different perceptions' of ...<b>Xavier</b> - Those 'different perceptions' of shared experiences can really be mind-bending, can't they?<br /><br />And your friend's dad called you 'the enemy'? That's hard; that's really hard. . .<br /><br /><b>Jim</b> - Thanks for stopping in and commenting!<br /><br />I'm sure there's truth in what you say. Surely, Obama's election is a marker of something positive in terms of general cultural attitudes toward race. But you're right, I think, to look 'further ahead'.<br /><br />It's like hiring the first black man to manage a major-league baseball team (Frank Robinson, 1975, Cleveland Indians); it was almost as big a deal when he was fired because the team wasn't winning, as it was that he was hired in the first place.<br /><br />Funny too, how fast things can change. Jackie Robinson debuted with the Brooklyn Dodgers just nine years before I was born, and by the time I was paying attention to major league baseball, less than 20 years later, black players were commonplace.<br /><br />----------<br /><br />Another story, from my college days, occurs to me. At registration, we had to fill out some kind of 'information' form, and one of the questions was 'race', and we were given several choices - white(Caucasian), black (African-American), Hispanic/Latino, etc, etc. Which struck me as bizarre - what did MegaState University care what race I - or any of my fellow-students - was? The last line was 'Other', with a blank space for you to write in your race. So I (idealistic young fellow that I was) checked 'Other' and wrote 'Human'. Which I've done ever since.<br /><br />When I hired in with my current company, I had to fill in a similar form, and I filled it in as I always have. When the HR rep looked over my form, she told me, "You can't answer 'Human'; it's not one of the choices." When I told her that was the only answer I was gonna give, she erased it and checked 'white(Caucasian)', "because I can see with my own eyes that's what you are."<br /><br />And so it goes. We're getting closer, but we're not there just yet. . .Desmond Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07829959101276150279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3654204667900390232.post-80079694910475900072009-07-14T12:09:00.480-04:002009-07-14T12:09:00.480-04:00I hope you don't mind, Desmond, but I feel a n...I hope you don't mind, Desmond, but I feel a need to answer Therese with my own thoughts on the matter.<br /><br />I believe we'll have really turned the corner when a black man (or woman) LOSES a presidential election and there are no cries of "He (she) lost because of prejudice!" I think the real test of a society comes not from elevating one person to a high position, but having so many candidates of varying races and colors that one of them losing is not seen as an indictment of that society as a whole. Just my two cents.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10276019471087074882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3654204667900390232.post-44551759338496106292009-07-14T11:58:56.545-04:002009-07-14T11:58:56.545-04:00When I was a little bitty boy race wasn't much...When I was a little bitty boy race wasn't much of an issue round here, either, other than in the 'big city' (Binghamton) down the road. By the time I was in junior high school things had changed quite a bit but I hesitate to relate much because my race-diverse friends saw things we experienced quite differently from how I saw them. The one thing I can relate is that I lost several racially 'different' friends as soon as their parents found out I was white. One even called me the enemy. <br /><br />But then, most came from New York City and had a far different life and experience than they found here. I regained one friend after his parents were here a couple years but things were never again what they were to begin with.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3654204667900390232.post-70484285291722097042009-07-13T10:43:20.671-04:002009-07-13T10:43:20.671-04:00Michelle - C'mon, show me whatcha got. . . ;)...<b>Michelle</b> - C'mon, show me whatcha got. . . ;) You know I'm all about the 'dangerous' (yeah, right). . .<br /><br />Actually, in urban schools (at least here in Michigan), it's still not unusual for there to be some police presence at sporting events; usually pretty 'token', but there's apparently some felt need for a 'presence'. . .<br /><br /><b>Truey</b> - Yeah, your perspective changes when it becomes a matter of your own 'lived experience', doesn't it?<br /><br /><b>Cocotte</b> - Sorry about the long post; I suppose I could've broken it up, but it just kinda kept flowing, once I started writing. . .<br /><br />And funny, too, how you felt 'deprived' for your family's 'non-ethnicity'. I suppose I'd be similar to you in that regard. When I was in college, tho, I got all into the various-and-sundry 'ethnic' cuisines - Mexican, Indian, Cajun, Thai, etc, etc. . . and we never had <i>any</i> of those Up North. . .<br /><br /><b>Therese</b> - I agree that 'racial stuff' is less of an issue than <i>(*ahem*)</i> when I was your age. But it isn't just free and easy, either. I still perceive a kind of 'psycho-social barrier', altho it's nothing like when I was younger.<br /><br />Maybe, like I say, it'll be better with my kids' generation (oh wait. . . that would be <i>your</i> generation, wouldn't it?)Desmond Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07829959101276150279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3654204667900390232.post-33672331260159615552009-07-12T23:13:28.792-04:002009-07-12T23:13:28.792-04:00I've only had a couple African American friend...I've only had a couple African American friends in my life because in my part of the country, there really aren't that many. We have a lot of Hispanics this way, though. I agree with FTN, though, that race does seem to be less of an issue, now, but frankly, I don't think its enough.<br /><br />When Obama was elected, people talked about how much progress we had made that we would elect an African American. I think real progress will be when we elect an African American, Asian, Hispanic or some other minority, and no one talks about race at all.Therese in Heavenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13607519856275927706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3654204667900390232.post-36463759609294534932009-07-10T19:26:42.523-04:002009-07-10T19:26:42.523-04:00I think I had the rare opportunity to grow up in a...I think I had the rare opportunity to grow up in a culturally diverse suburb in the '70's. And we had a number of neighbors that were mixed couples. If anything, I felt left out because I was not "ethnic" in the least. My mom didn't make any food that pertained to our heritage whereas most of my friends' moms did.<br /><br />I'll come back tomorrow to read more, Des....this was a looonngg post!Bijouxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11577723506036164914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3654204667900390232.post-52253198500911086052009-07-10T13:49:17.597-04:002009-07-10T13:49:17.597-04:00Interesting stuff. I may have to write a post of ...Interesting stuff. I may have to write a post of my own on the topic at some point. Given that N is biracial has given me a perspective I may not have had otherwise. I just need to get back into the writing mode (or mood).Trueselfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04376379968984585345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3654204667900390232.post-61211971644630091972009-07-10T13:47:36.352-04:002009-07-10T13:47:36.352-04:00You are a dangerous man, giving me the invitation ...You are a dangerous man, giving me the invitation to write a long response. My comments can get as long as novels.<br /><br />BTW - I'm 34-years-old, so the story I wrote happened between 1980 up to 1994. I never heard about the cop thing at sporting events until now.Michelle H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10117937124348728578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3654204667900390232.post-20978346183238305072009-07-10T13:10:52.278-04:002009-07-10T13:10:52.278-04:00Suldog - Thank you very much for stopping by. And...<b>Suldog</b> - Thank you very much for stopping by. And thanks for sending Michelle by, too. I found both your stories to be inspiring, and to resonate with my own experiences. Which is why I wrote this post up. . .<br /><br />I'm right with you, just waiting for the bullshit to die away. . .<br /><br />It may not happen in your lifetime or mine, but my kids' experience gives me cause for hope. Their relationships with black/Hispanic/Asian kids are much easier and more relaxed, than anything I've ever experienced. The ability to tease and poke fun at each other is a marker of a certain level of trust, and I've been impressed that their relationships allow for that, without offense being taken. Which would have been a harder place to get to in my day. . .<br /><br /><b>Lime</b> - Well, the best part of Blog-space is all the cool people you meet there. So, thanks for your role in my meeting Sully.<br /><br />I've had a few occasions like yours in Trinidad, where I've been the 'minority', and for a white guy in America, they can be a tad disorienting, at first. But once you relax, they can be a lot of fun, and you can learn a lot.<br /><br />And yeah - the unspoken taboo against speaking openly about racial stuff is NOT helpful. Yet another marker of the lack of trust, when you can't even <i>talk</i> about it. . .<br /><br /><b>Michelle</b> - So glad you came by! (I was hoping you would) Thanks for your kind words.<br /><br />I don't know if the cops in question were 'packing' or not; but they were on-duty, so it's reasonable to presume that they were. It was mostly just a 'show' thing, I'm convinced; ostensibly to say to the white kids from Up North, "we'll protect you", but even just the thought that we might need to be protected was scary, all by itself. (I don't know how old you are, but in the late 60s/early 70s, cops at sporting events was not terribly unusual, especially in bigger cities.)<br /><br />As for my dad. . . It's funny, but a few years after Molly and I got married, one of my cousins married a black guy. I don't know what kind of churning that caused in her family (if any), but he's always been fully accepted at the family gatherings (at least, so far as I can tell). So, I don't know - maybe Dad would've been more upset to have one of his own kids marry a black, or maybe he's mellowed a bit, seeing that it ain't so awful as all that. . .<br /><br />And listen, just this once ( ;) ), feel free to leave as long a comment as you want. On the right topic, it happens here all the time. . .<br /><br /><b>FTN</b> - You're welcome for the history lesson. ;)<br /><br />And I'm sure you're right - a lot has changed in the 20-year difference in our ages. Again, I look at my kids, and I see just what you're talking about. Heck, 4M was chased by black girls almost as much as white ones. . .<br /><br />See, my thing with GF1 was always that she wasn't my <i>black</i> girlfriend, she was just my girlfriend, who happened to be black. And a really neat person, no matter what color she was. The virtually complete dropping of the 'taboo' against interracial marriages is certainly a positive marker.<br /><br />And of course, I'll be waiting for you to post your story, either on your blog, or here in these comments.Desmond Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07829959101276150279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3654204667900390232.post-22877538331615811122009-07-10T09:42:00.279-04:002009-07-10T09:42:00.279-04:00There's a lot of interesting stuff here... It&...There's a lot of interesting stuff here... It's sort of a personalized history lesson (um, sorry if that makes you feel old). Because honestly, a lot of stuff changed in ~20 years. It really has become less and less of an issue over time, at least from what I've seen in my little corner of the world.<br /><br />People say that Sunday mornings are the most segregated time of the week, with our churches and all. Which is still too bad. I am a huge fan of churches that are going out of their way to be try to be really "integrated" with people of all races. I spent a week in college with a church in Tennessee that was doing that, and a good portion of the pastors and elders and staff where in interracial marriages -- something that I thought was a fantastic example for what they were trying to do.<br /><br />I have a story I'll have to tell on this topic sometimes about generational differences I've seen concerning race... Parents and their worries about their kids dating people of other races.FTNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00863217400079842687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3654204667900390232.post-62509596250365829432009-07-10T09:03:18.012-04:002009-07-10T09:03:18.012-04:00Hello Desmond!
Jim (Suldog) dropped me a link thi...Hello Desmond!<br /><br />Jim (Suldog) dropped me a link this morning and I had to rush on over. <br /><br />I would like to have some witty and insightful commentary, but on this rare occasion, I don't. Your story was deep and passionate, and there were just so many things that had me both laughing (the hair touching thing - I had that happen to me), and gasping (armed police at a basketball game - wow!)<br /><br />Your GF1 could have been me, spit-on. And your father's opinions about black people mirrored my own parents' bigoted viewpoints concerning white people. Any time a boy called the house, my father would ask, "Is he black?" and then glare whenever I gave a different answer.<br /><br />There's just so much I could go over in your story. But my comments can get long (just ask Jim about that). I guess, all I have to say is, thank you for sharing your own experiences! Only through such openness do we learn about these racial instances, and hopefully improve our own understanding and tolerance toward others.Michelle H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10117937124348728578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3654204667900390232.post-43583784021930863432009-07-09T22:54:09.801-04:002009-07-09T22:54:09.801-04:00well, i am delighted you found suldog through me. ...well, i am delighted you found suldog through me. he is one fine individual. thanks also for sharing your story. it's been interesting to read suldog, michelle, and you and be able to see the regional, generational, and even gender different perspectives. it's good to be able to exchange experiences and thoughts respectfully and grow from it. i can relate to a number of the things each of you shared and then add that to the experience of being the racial minority for the year i lived in trinidad (which is admittedly very different than being the racial minority here). the really great thing about living there though was being able to openly discuss racial things because that is a cultural norm there.limehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17259558876349307173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3654204667900390232.post-62550821019665500352009-07-09T16:43:27.055-04:002009-07-09T16:43:27.055-04:00Desmond:
Your story touched me deeply. You know, ...Desmond:<br /><br />Your story touched me deeply. You know, from reading mine, that I had a few very regrettable incidents when I was younger. I've reached an age now where I long for nothing more than to see all of the bullshit about race just die quickly. I don't see it happening in my lifetime, and it truly makes me want to cry.<br /><br />I hope Michelle reads this. I'm sure she'll have some insightful commentary.<br /><br />Thank you for this.Suldoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07778845367184916684noreply@blogger.com